"Have faith in God." Mark 11:22

ER2 and the Ugly Details

Elephant Room 2 is over and we are waiting for the video to be released (or clips). But we are reading comments by some who watched the forum online, or in the case of Chris Rosebrough, who attempted to attend personally only to have his registration revoked and threatened with arrest, and the comments are troubling and not surprising.

 

From what we are reading and hearing, what I thought would happen, did happen; star-struck reception and softball questions lobbed to T.D. Jakes. That was to be expected, and sadly, so was the selfish, childish and unholy actions of James McDonald and the ER2 crew. They are so thin skinned and take an “I’m taking my ball and going home” attitude toward any challenge to their actions or motives.

 

Below are links to some insightful posts concerning the whole Elephant Room garbage:

 

Ken Silva and Apprising.org

http://apprising.org/2012/01/25/we-can-work-it-out-is-james-macdonald-qualified-to-have-this-conversation/

http://apprising.org/2012/01/25/chris-rosebrough-discusses-details-of-threat-of-arrest-at-elephant-room-2/

Chris Rosebrough, Fighting for the Faith.com

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/01/elephant-room-arrest-threat-details.html

Daniel Neades, BetterthanSacrifice.org

http://blog.betterthansacrifice.org/2012/01/26/elephant-room-2-may-we-now-regard-t-d-jakes-as-trinitarian-and-orthodox/#comment-8134

http://blog.betterthansacrifice.org/2012/01/25/running-scared-why-is-elephant-room-afraid-of-scrutiny/

Issues, Etc.- Interview with Chris Rosebrough

http://issuesetc.org/2012/01/25/3-the-intolerance-of-seeker-driven-leaders-chris-rosebrough-1252012/

 

 

Steve Camp offered sound comments on Twitter:

 

PastorSJCamp Steve Camp

Affirmng doctrin of Trinity isnt 2 regurgitate a theologicl phrase. It is biblically understndng th nature of th Godhead & n re: 2 th gospel

PastorSJCamp Steve Camp

RT @colbycm Did Jakes & Driscoll debate somewhere?? // not a debate, bt a discussion on Modalism @ #Elephant Room. Jakes played him. Sad

PastorSJCamp Steve Camp

@

@PastorMark My brother I love you, but Jakes controlled you today & unfortunately you let him off – easy – on critical essential doctrine.

PastorSJCamp Steve Camp

RT @ralphprovance What do you do when the #elephantroom is full of elephants? Simple….you run far, far away. // LOL. Amen!

PastorSJCamp Steve Camp

Problm w/ Jakes’s hereticl vu of Trinity is tht it redefines th God of th Bible & reinvnts th gospel. He needs 2b regenrated! #elephantroom


The Elephant in the Elephant Room

Travis Allen, Director of Internet Ministry with Grace to You,offers great insight on The Elephant Room controversy, relating to the first session and the opening discussion involving Perry Noble, Mark Driscoll and moderator James McDonald. You must read the entire article.

That Elephant Room session was full of swagger and bravado, the epitome of hipster coolness. But the biggest elephant in the room on that day was the failure to fear God, the failure to speak with conviction when His Word is so clear.

While watching that video, I couldn’t help but remember the prophetic words of David Wells in God in the Wasteland, that “God now rests too inconsequentially upon the church.” Wells continues, saying, ”If God is at the center of worship, one has to wonder why there is so much surrounding the center that is superfluous to true worship—indeed, counterproductive to it.”

Whenever the clear voice of God in His Word is blunted or diminished, whether by ignorance or neglect, God will rest too inconsequentially upon the church. I fear we’re becoming a generation that’s doing church in a way that is counterproductive to true worship. And I’m concerned it’s because we don’t fear God as we should, and we’re becoming accustomed to doing what is right in our own eyes.

“To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn” (Is. 8:20).

Read the entire article…

Thabiti Anyabwile & AJ Carter hit back-to-back homers in the McDonald/Jakes/Elephant Room issue…

This article, The Elephant Wins by A.J. Carter, comes from The Gospel Coalition….

“Jakes is no dummy.  He will be careful not to say anything that would indict him as a false teacher.  He is a smart man.  You don’t get to his position being stupid.  Therefore, I fear that by the end of the discussion, when all the rounds have been fired, and the dust has settled, the elephant in the room will be Mr. Jakes himself.  He will be standing tall shaking everyone’s hand and thanking them for giving him another platform on which to promote himself.  No matter what is said, unless Jakes denounces his previous teachings or is exposed as a false teacher, it’s a win for team Jakes and a loss for those of us left to clean up after the elephant has done his business.”

Read the entire article…

Is McDonald labeling those who question The Elephant Room and/or T.D. Jakes, pagans?

This comment and reply comes from the James McDonald site from a post titled Why I am Excited to have T.D. Jakes in The Elephant Room. The comment is from a Michael Plato and the reply from James McDonald himself. I submitted a reply question and hope that it gets a response.

Michael PlatoSep.30.2011<!––>

Brother James,
I appreciate the fact that you have been so prompt in your response to the calls for accountability. Many of us love you and your ministry dearly and I, at least, am glad when you listen to those of us who may not have very large megaphones. May we all ultimately proclaim the glory of Christ’s name and the triunity of the Godhead.
In this spirit of dialogue, and if it is possible within time constraints, could you clarify a few points of concern? For one, what aspects of the Trinity do you find “a mystery”? I know many speak of the mystery of the Trinity, but I had always thought of that in terms of joyous anticipation of its infinite glories. Doctrinally and definitionally, at least, the New Testament and the creeds seem quite clear and specific as regards its basic constitution. I mean it’s not as if there’s going to be some sudden surprise like the Father is not a person, or there are two essences, or something .
I am also concerned by your statement: “Every minister of the Gospel should welcome and learn from criticism, but critics that act like pagans are probably just that.” What do you mean by “act like pagans”? What is your criterion for distinguishing…

James MacDonald Reply:
September 30th, 2011 at 7:24 am

Michael:
I hope you understand I cannot turn this forum into a conversation. That is one of the reasons for ER.
You won’t be able to tell from the site what I think a “pagan” critic looks like because those comments are deleted,
as are ones that are well written but simply, yet another, expression of the same thing. In this instance I am
also not posting any comments that are critical of Bishop Jakes. he has been kind enough to accept our
invitation and I don’t want my ministry leading up to the ER to be a forum for people to spew venom. I would never allow that.

james

 

Mike Corley Reply:Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 30th, 2011 at 9:15 am

Am I understanding you correctly that you are labeling people such as myself, and others, that even question you or question Jakes’ theology and methods, as being pagans?

 

Am I misunderstanding the reply by Dr. McDonald or he is saying those that disagree with he or Jakes, or even questions Jakes or his theology, are “pagans” and being “people who spew venom”?

No doubt there Dr. McDonald may receive some inappropriate  comments but if his intention is to lump all people questioning this situation into that catergory, it is very disturbing and totally uncalled for.

Reckon why The Elephant Room keeps deleting my comments?

I have posted several comments on the blog site of James McDonald regarding the T.D. Jakes…and they have all been deleted. I even had a reader/listener write and tell me they posted a link for my post  The Elephant Room, T.D. Jakes and our reaction and that comment was deleted.

Why are they deleting the comments? What are they afraid of? Does the goal of an open discussion apply only when the cameras are rolling and some Christian “celebrity” is on the set?

The Elephant Room, T.D. Jakes, and our reaction

There has been a lot written about the James McDonald event/concept called The Elephant Room. The Elephant Room website describes it as,

The Elephant Room is more than an event. It is the outgrowth of an idea. The idea that the best way forward for the followers of Jesus lies not in crouching behind walls of disagreement but in conversation among leaders about what the scriptures actually teach.  What the bible actually asserts about the biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice, about the most Christ honoring ways of building a church.  However, a rally to unite where there is so much division is not for those who prefer to hide in small huddles of self congratulatory agreement.  A true unity cannot be fashioned in pretense or denial of truth nor can it be won among those who prefer sectarianism to the unity Jesus prayed for.  To advance Christ’s call to unity we must do what men have always done, we must push and prod and challenge and sharpen each other’s beliefs and methods.  Fidelity and fruitfulness, both matter.  No one has a corner on the truth and methods must do more than ‘work.’

A lot of what has been discussed about The Elephant Room has revolved around some of the people involved and their doctrine and methods. For example, Perry Noble of New Spring Church in Anderson, SC; I find his theology to be shaky at best and his methodology to certainly be unconventional and in my opinion, in most of the cases I know about, inappropriate and offensive. Nobles, by his own admission, goes out of his way to be offensive and controversial to the extent that the Gospel message is smeared. His language is clearly questionable and sometimes borderline profane, using the word freakin on many occasions. If the Gospel presentation were clear, that would be one thing. But it isn’t and it is almost always overshadowed by offensive and inappropriate material or behavior.

Then there are those like Mark Driscoll, David Platt and Greg Laurie; men who are, in my opinion, committed to the Gospel and to proclaiming it with clarity and compassion.

Then there is the news that T.D. Jakes will join the panel in round 2 of the conversation. I may disagree with a Driscoll or Laurie in some secondary area of theology but I could have fellowship with them. Jakes however is a different matter. His theology and methodology is clearly Word of Faith and if you go by what he has written and preached, he adheres to Oneness or Modalist theology. I can state here again, and feel totally comfortable in saying it, T.D. Jakes is a heretic, and I have great concerns when anyone who say they affirm the orthodox Christian faith aligning themselves with someone like a Jakes, Osteen or Warren; whether it be in a conference, a television program and certainly in their churches. My question is, would these men be given as much attention as they are if they did not sell millions of books, claim large numbers of members in the churches or have easier access to media publicity? I think not.

With that said, I am saying here that I am going to withhold from further comment on the Elephant Room until I have a chance to learn more, and as to the Jakes sessions, until I can  hear what is said during the event itself. I have stated my position on Jakes and that is clear. While I do not know James McDonald’s ministry very well, what I have known and heard was positive; so I want to give him and his colleagues the benefit of the doubt; to do the right thing and reserve criticism until I know more.

I agree we should be willing to have conversations with all sorts of people and that we should do so lovingly and hospitably. But at the same time we must remain committed to our faith and not ever be willing to, or even appear to be, disloyal to the Gospel.

Will the questioning and discussion with Jakes be direct and confrontational? Will Jakes be called on his Modalist and Word of Faith theologies? Will those on the panel be in awe of his personality and celebrity and thusly be more willingly to impress him? Let’s see.